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September 22nd.
Some snowmobilers attended this council meeting, supporting the use of their equipment on the LRT trail, but city councilmembers first spoke to the issue again themselves.
Asked Councilmember Mary Thun, "If we allow snowmobiles, wouldn't that sign, 'No motorized vehicles,' have to be taken down?"
She then proposed a solution, one that was not accepted by other councilmem-bers, however. "Can we limit the snow-mobile use only to residents of Victoria?"
She pointed out that some residents moved to Victoria because there was easy snowmobile access to the LRT trail. She also talked to business people who appre-ciate snowmobile patrons. Her motion included a $5 sticker fee to help cover the permitting process at City Hall and correct existing signage.
"A business owner said to me that we advertise this community as a city of lakes and parks, which implies recreational opportunities," said Mary. " I've walked that trail and never had a problem with snowmobiles. There will come a time when it probably won't be allowed. Is this the time to completely ban it? I think there are enough Victoria residents and businesses who want the snowmobile use."
"My commitment is to Victoria," she said, "and I don't want to disenfranchise Victoria residents and Victoria businesses. I think we can come to a middle of the road solution." She indicated that other snowmobilers could ride the ditches rather than the trail.
Councilmember Terry Bishop stated, "I disagree. I think it would be difficult to enforce. The trail is on property we don't own. To me it's a safety issue. We don't have the wide open spaces we had before. It opens up more problems than it's worth. As this community is changing, there may be some things we have to give up."
He asked, "What if we did that for cars? What if we said if you don't live in Victoria, you can't drive through Vic-toria? It's the same thought process."
Councilmember Richard Tieden also commented on the Victoria-only use of snowmobiles on the LRT trail. "It seems there'd be a presumption that if you live in Victoria, you are responsible, and if you don't, you're not, and it's just not true." He believes that the "overwhelm-ing majority of people are responsible."
"We do have changing demograph-ics," he said. "Nobody's going to totally agree on things. Nothing is 100% … My problem is that the public wasn't in-formed." It is true that the issue, although an annual issue, provided little lead time for citizen input before the September 24th Three Rivers Park deadline. Richard suggested allowing snowmobiles for one more year and then studying the issue.
City Administrator Steve Sarvi said it would be difficult to differentiate between Victoria and non-Victoria users. Instead, he said, "I think we can strictly enforce the speed and the sound. It's a fairly small stretch of trail. If we can manage the speed, joint use of the trail will be workable.'
Snowmobilers/Others
Said Bud Hiivala, Victoria resident at Park Drive, "We've lived here ten years. We have 12 lots backing up to the trail. We put up fences. Our complaint is not that they [snowmobilers] use the trails but that they use our backyards and we have small children. Let them stay on the trail and slow down."
Said a snowmobiler named Todd, "We groom that trail so people can also walk it and snowshoe it. I live out in Mayer. A lot of these issues can be dealt with by the snowmobile associations. Who would groom the trail if not us?"
Said snowmobiler Jay, "Signs are a good thing along the trail. Signage helps out a lot at a low cost. I'd personally pay for it."
Said Mike Shouldice, 12-year Vic-toria resident near the trail at Schutz Lake, "The trail was built for trains on steal tracks. The last fatality was 12 years ago when a snowmobiler went off the trail in a steep area here and kissed a tree. I see no enforcement of speed or sound today. Pedestrians are only allowed to use the trail from sunup to sundown. Why are snowmobilers allowed to use it 24/7? It's been a very contentious issue for the cities to the east of us. Shorewood banned it about ten years ago … When there is snow on the ground there are snowmobilers, a hundred during the day and about ten to 12 of them at night when I'm trying to sleep."
Another snowmobiler said, "I became a Victoria resident 22 years ago. We moved here because of snowmobiling right out our back door. I'm handicapped and that's the only thing I can use in the City of Victoria," she said. She is unable to use the exercise equipment or walking track at the Field House, for example.
Councilmember Richard Tieden put the cap on the evening. He referred to hunting in the City of Victoria and the various permits granted for rifles or bows and arrows. He referred to decibels of noise allowed for outdoor music in the City of Victoria. He referred to the 2 a.m. closing of bars that is allowed in some cities, but not Victoria.
"As a society we have to allow for people to continue to do things," said Richard, "but it does get more complicat-ed. Some people don't like gambling, but we allow people to go out and do things. There is over regulation out there. We can do something to encourage responsi-ble speed. Maybe the snowmobile associ-ation can put it in their newsletter to stay out of people's backyards."
More Motions
Councilmember Mary Thun made a motion this evening of September 22nd that the City of Victoria issue snowmobile permits for use on the LRT trail only to Victoria residents. Motion failed because of a 2-2 tie vote. (Mary Thun and Kim Roden in favor; Richard Tieden and Terry Bishop against; Mayor Jerry Bohn ab-sent.)
Councilmember Kim Roden then made a motion to allow snowmobiling for the 2005 season, directing staff to conduct a related study to be presented to council-members by March 15th, 2006, for use in future decisions. The motion passed 3-1, including Mary Thun's amendment to correct and clarify appropriate signage on the trail. Terry Bishop dissented.
Councilmember Richard Tieden spoke against a shutoff of conversation at this time by Acting Mayor Terry Bishop. Said Richard, "If people don't have the opportunity to speak here, they don't have it anyplace."
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